A Facebook conversation snippet I thought was worth saving.
After a careful consideration of the evidence, your conclusion is: "Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God. He restored the true church of Jesus Christ. And he was faithful to the Lord throughout his life." But could not the same form of reasoning be applied to Wayne Bent? If not, why not?Richard Alger:
I had not heard of Wayne Bent. I just looked up a bit of info from him. I believe that God, or the Universe or Good shows up in all places. In all religions, in those with no faith at all in Deity.
President Hinckley said, “Let me say that we appreciate the truth in all churches and the good which they do. We say to the people, in effect, you bring with you all the good that you have, and then let us see if we can add to it. That is the spirit of this work. That is the essence of our missionary service” (meeting, Nairobi, Kenya, 17 Feb. 1998, "Excerpts from Recent Addresses of President Gordon B. Hinckley").
"whatever is true is a part of the gospel" ("My Father’s Formula", Dr. Henry Eyring, Ensign, Oct 1978)
"When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That's my religion." Abraham Lincoln
I have also found that the analogy of the word of God as a seed works well for me. I have found that the seed has swollen within me. It has sprouted and I have nurtured its growth for years. I have tasted of the fruit and I tastes good to me. It gives me life. (Alma 32:26-43)
"O then, is not this real? I say unto you, Yea, because it is light; and whatsoever is light, is good, because it is discernible, therefore ye must know that it is good;" Verse 35
I have seen in my life that as I have given it to Jesus, that I have no more disposition to do evil but to do good continually. I have felt the beginnings of the fruits of the Spirit. (Moroni 7:45-48)
So, in my long winded answer to your question, "could not the same reasoning be applied to Wayne Bent?" It is possible that Wayne has truth and is leading his followers in Good. I have not looked into it. I believe that there are many, many manifestations of God's goodness and truth. I do not believe that Wayne restored the true church of Jesus Christ.
I believe that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only organization authorized to make binding covenants between God and humankind. That baptism, the gift of the Holy Ghost and other ordinances unlock a particular gift to us. To be faithful to what we are taught. That a weekly renewal of this covenant serves as a continual way to rededicate ourselves to what we believe is good and right.
If we follow these patterns of God in our lives, the calculus 1 of good means that we eventually, through the grace of God, become even as God is. To live the kind of life He lives. That we can begin to receive the joy this kind of life brings starting today.
Why not? Because I feel such a manifestation of the Spirit as I live the gospel as restored in the LDS church.
I have not found anywhere else teachings that expands my mind and helps me to reach to God. Doctrines like agency and our unique view of the choices of Adam and Eve.
Our teachings of becoming like God (or theosis) is unique in its centrality of teaching.
The balanced view of justice and mercy that I have not seen in any other teaching.
And I am sure I could go on.
I have seen the goodness in my local leaders and members of my congregation. People that I admire and want to be more like.
The opportunities that I have had to serve and by so doing, to become better than I would have.
That is why, does that answer your questions, Randy Galbraith?Randy Galbraith:
The reason that I asked, is because I believe the key point is commitment. Wayne Bent (modern living religious leader) and Joseph Smith (historical) present similar models and similar claims. Above is the quote: "I am not a committed Latter-day Saint in spite of my careful study of LDS history, but because of it."
It is because of commitment that one does not easily discard beliefs at the first sign of trouble. Understanding this can help us understand folks in various faiths.
In contrast neither you nor I have made commitments to Bent's group, thus it is relatively easy for us to dismiss his claims as not from God. The flip of this is such can generate a deeper/sympathetic view of former members of a faith. Former JWs (and likely former LDS members) don't give up their faith easily.
The other area of thought I've been pursing lately is the differences between historical fact, claims made by a faith and personal belief and social interactions such createsRichard Alger:
I don't doubt that my investment and commitment to the gospel of Jesus Christ as restored in the LDS church makes it easy for me to remain associated with the church. And committed to it.
This is human nature. I do not deny my bias.
I have found it helpful to associate, especially online, with people that have a different point of view than I do. In politics, religion, in nationality.
I find that their earnest dialog with me helps me to better understand my own views. I have discarded some of my beliefs that I have had as a child. and even as an earlier adult. I am under no allusion that I have the most complete and accurate understanding of how things really are and how they used to be and how they will yet be.
It seems to be an attribute of this life that we cannot know, with surety the correct path to take. I believe this is by design. Just as with the traveling salesman problem, the best solution sometimes is to make our best approximation and then correct our path with repeated iteration.