"If we have truth, [it] cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not truth, it ought to be harmed."

I love this quote,

"If we have truth, [it] cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not truth, it ought to be harmed."
(J. Reuben Clark, as recorded by D. Michael Quinn, J. Reuben Clark: The Church Years. Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University Press, 1983, p. 24)

Here is it in context.

By 1917, however, Reuben was asking himself some religious questions that took him years to resolve. In one personal memo he began, "If we have truth, [it] cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not truth, it ought to be harmed." From that premise he added the observation that scientists and lawyers (like himself) were not blindly believing and that they must refuse to be deceived by others or by their own wishful thinking. "A lawyer must get at facts, he must consider motives -- he must tear off the mask and lay bare the countenance, however hideous. The frightful skeleton of truth must always be exposed ... [the lawyer] must make every conclusion pass the fiery ordeal of pitiless reason. If their conclusions cannot stand this test, they are false." During the same year the increasingly introspective lawyer asked himself the questions: Are we not only entitled, but expected to think for ourselves? Otherwise there does our free agency come in? His answer was a resounding: "If we are blindly to follow some one else we are not free agents.... That we may as a Church determine for ourselves our course of action, is shown my the Manifesto [abandoning the practice of polygamy]. We may not probably take an affirmative stand, i.e., adopt something new but we may dispense with something." Perhaps he had never before questioned the assumptions that lay behind some of the simple faith of his youth, but at midlife J. Reuben Clark, Jr. proclaimed that there must be no forbidden questions in Mormonism. 

The directions to which his philosophy of religious inquiry led him were indicated in his musings about two essentials of Mormonism: the revelations of Joseph Smith, Jr. and the Church belief in progression toward godhood. As he examined the revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants concerning the structure of the Church government, Reuben Clark wondered to what extent Joseph Smith's reading or experience, "his own consciousness," had contributed to what he set down, and when Reuben pondered the Mormon belief in the potential of individuals to attain the godly stature of their Father in Heaven, his logical mind boggled a bit. "Is Space or occupied portions of it divided among various deities -- have they great 'spheres of influence'? War of Gods -- think of wreck of matter involved -- if matter used -- or would it be a war of forces?" In his mid-forties, he regarded these as legitimate doctrinal inquiries but soon realized that each question concerning doctrine led to other questions, each of which was further removed from rational verification. Reuben soon came to the conclusion he described in later years to the non-Mormon president of George Washington University: "For my own part I early came to recognize that for me personally I must either quit rationalizing ... or I must follow the line of my own thinking which would lead me I know not where." 

But J. Reuben Clark soon recognized where an uncompromising commitment to rational theology would lead him, and he shrank from the abyss. "I came early to appreciate that I could not rationalize a religion for myself, and that to attempt to do so would destroy my faith in God," he later wrote to his non-Mormon friend. "I have always rather worshipped facts," he continues,"and while I thought and read for a while, many of the incidents of life, experiences and circumstances led, unaided by the spirit of faith, to the position of the atheist, yet the faith of my fathers led me to abandon all that and to refrain from following it.... For me there seemed to be no alternative. I could only build up a doubt. --If I were to attempt to rationalize about my life here, and the life too come, I would be drowned in a sea of doubt." 

All the confidence of J. Reuben Clark's commitment to rational inquiry in religious matters evaporated. He had once believed that in intellectual faith "we may not probably take an affirmative stand, i.e., adopt something new but we may dispense with something," but Reuben found that such an attempt could only lead to dispensing with everyting [sic]. As he cast about for some way of explaining his position to others, he discovered an anecdote about Abraham Lincoln, who justified reading the Bible despite his reputed agnosticism with the comment: "I have learned to read the Bible. I believe all I can and take the rest on faith." To a friend, Reuben related the Lincoln story and added, "Substituting in the substance the words 'our Mormon Scriptures,' you will have about my situation." He later commended that anecdote to a general conference of the Church. Convinced that no religious faith could withstand uncompromising intellectual inquiry, Reuben concluded that in Babylon as well as in Zion, the refusal to rationalize one's religious beliefs was the highest manifestation of faith. 

(J. Reuben Clark: The Church Years by D. Michael Quinn, Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University Press, 1983, pages 24-26, link to page photos)

The LDS Church Doesn't Claim to Have all Truth or Goodness

-

It is our duty and calling, as ministers of the same salvation and Gospel, to gather every item of truth and reject every error. Whether a truth be found with professed infidels, or with the Universalists, or the Church of Rome, or the Methodists, the Church of England, the Presbyterians, the Baptists, the Quakers, the Shakers, or any other of the various and numerous different sects and parties, all of whom have more or less truth, it is the business of the Elders of this Church (Jesus, their Elder Brother, being at their head) to gather up all the truths in the world pertaining to life and salvation, to the Gospel we preach, … to the sciences, and to philosophy, wherever it may be found in every nation, kindred, tongue, and people and bring it to Zion (Discourses of Brigham Young, 248, quoted in "Chapter 2: The Gospel Defined", Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young, (1997), 14–20)

-

Freedom is based on truth, and no man is completely free as long as any part of his belief is based on error, for the chains of error bind his mind. This is why it is so important for us to learn all the truth we can from all the sources we can. We need particularly to search the scriptures, for in them are the words which, if accepted and lived, will lead us to eternal life. (“Ye Shall Know the Truth”, N. Eldon Tanner, Apr 1978)

-

We do not claim that others have no truth. The Lord described them as having “a form of godliness.” Converts to the Church may bring with them all the truth they possess and have it added upon. ("The Only True Church", Boyd K. Packer, Oct 1985)

-

Let me say that we appreciate the truth in all churches and the good which they do. We say to the people, in effect, you bring with you all the good that you have, and then let us see if we can add to it. That is the spirit of this work. That is the essence of our missionary service (meeting, Nairobi, Kenya, 17 Feb. 1998, Quoted in "Excerpts from Recent Addresses of President Gordon B. Hinckley", Ensign Aug 1998).

-

Is it possible to find truth? 

The purpose of my remarks is to proclaim the joyful message that God Himself—the Lord of Hosts who knows all truth—has given His children the promise that they can know truth for themselves. 

... 

My dear friends, here is a fairly straightforward experiment, with a guarantee from God, found in a book of ancient scripture available to every man, woman, and child willing to put it to the test: 

First, you must search the word of God. That means reading the scriptures and studying the words of the ancient as well as modern prophets regarding the restored gospel of Jesus Christ—not with an intent to doubt or criticize but with a sincere desire to discover truth. Ponder upon the things you will feel, and prepare your minds to receive the truth. “Even if ye can no more than desire to believe, let this desire work in you … that ye can give place for [the word of God].” 

Second, you must consider, ponder, fearlessly strive to believe, and be grateful for how merciful the Lord has been to His children from the time of Adam to our day by providing prophets, seers, and revelators to lead His Church and help us find the way back to Him. 

Third, you must ask your Heavenly Father, in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, to manifest the truth of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints unto you. Ask with a sincere heart and with real intent, having faith in Christ. 

There is also a fourth step, given to us by the Savior: “If any man will do [God’s] will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.” In other words, when you are trying to verify the truth of gospel principles, you must first live them. Put gospel doctrine and Church teachings to the test in your own life. Do it with real intent and enduring faith in God.
("Receiving a Testimony of Light and Truth", Dieter F. Uchtdorf, Oct 2014)

-

As community members work together unselfishly in a common cause, for the common good, they find that whatever their backgrounds, convictions, or experience, there is much more which unites them than which draws them apart. They come to understand that no group in society has a monopoly on goodness, wisdom, talent, knowledge, or energy. (“No More Strangers” Alexander B. Morrison, Ensign Sep 2000)

-

We do not have a monopoly on goodness. There are God-fearing men and women in all nations who influence for good those with whom they associate. ("You Make a Difference", Thomas S. Monson, Apr 1988)

-

No group has a monopoly on virtue or an immunity from the commandment to change. ("Repentance and Change", Dallin H. Oaks, Oct 2003)

-

our Church does not have a monopoly on good people, but we have a remarkable concentration of them. My associations in the organizations of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have given me the basis to recognize, appreciate, and enlarge my associations with people of quality in other churches and organizations ("The Gospel in Our Lives", Dallin H. Oaks, Apr 2002)

-

Diluting the Purity of Divine Truth

How Do We Become True Disciples of Jesus Christ?

The Savior Himself provided the answer with this profound declaration: “If ye love me, keep my commandments.” This is the essence of what it means to be a true disciple: those who receive Christ Jesus walk with Him.

But this may present a problem for some because there are so many “shoulds” and “should nots” that merely keeping track of them can be a challenge. Sometimes, well-meaning amplifications of divine principles—many coming from uninspired sources—complicate matters further, diluting the purity of divine truth with man-made addenda. One person’s good idea—something that may work for him or her—takes root and becomes an expectation. And gradually, eternal principles can get lost within the labyrinth of “good ideas.”

This was one of the Savior’s criticisms of the religious “experts” of His day, whom He chastised for attending to the hundreds of minor details of the law while neglecting the weightier matters.
("The Love of God", Dieter F. Uchtdorf, Oct 2009)

Truth Will Cut Its Own Way

-

William Wilberforce applied Christian ethics to abolish the slave trade in Great Britain. Abraham Lincoln drew on the truths of the Bible to heal a divided nation. Mahatma Gandhi spread the religious principles of nonviolence to lead India to independence. And the list goes on. These individuals resisted the grain of their times, and heralded something new.

Being a voice of religious conscience may not lead to popularity, but society is better served when all are allowed to pursue their highest good. We can disagree about important things with good will. It is unwise to stamp rivals as enemies. Indeed, they can prove to be helpful collaborators where social goals align. It feels uncomfortable to listen to critics call our cherished beliefs into question, and yet we show strength by engaging in sincere conversations with those who oppose our views. After all, we trust that “truth will cut its own way” and love will eventually win out in the contest of ideals. 

("The Voice of Religious Conscience", Mormon Newsroom Commentary, 25 Nov 2014)

-

Wilderness Disguised as Civilization

"The work that faces your generation is no less arduous [than the pioneers]. The deserts you must bring to blossom are no less arid, but your mission may demand even more of you, for unlike the early pioneers of this state you are confronted by a wilderness which is subtle and fluid and elusive. Indeed the wilderness which you must conquer is disguised as a civilization so that there is the double necessity to unmask the deceit, to distinguish between what is authentic and what is counterfeit, and to labor to support the one and oppose the other."

Discourse to BYU Students by Dr. John A. Howard, president of Rockford College, Illinois, as quoted by President N. Eldon Tanner, Oct 1976.

An Admission of Surrender to the Herd

 "Once the carnal in man is no longer checked by the restraints of family life and by real religion, there comes an avalanche of appetites which gathers momentum that is truly frightening. As one jars loose and begins to roll down hill, still another breaks loose....
[...]
Decadence is very demanding and dogmatic, and it is no friend of liberty. Decadence which grew in the soil of tolerance and permissiveness soon seeks to drive out all of these.
[...]
What is wrong is wrong, and trends do not make something right which is at variance with the laws of God.
[...]
Far from freeing those involved, sin is an admission of surrender to the herd. It is a capitulation to the carnal in man and a rejection of joy and beauty in this life and in the world to come."
("Listen to the Prophets", Spencer W. Kimball, Apr 1978)

This reminds me of weeds, that seek to drive out all other plants and do not bear good fruit.

Priesthood Authority vs Inter-Personal Reasoning

-

Consider the not unusual case in which two people who, having searched, pondered and prayed in all faithfulness and earnestness, come to two different conclusions regarding how they ought to believe, speak and/or act.  The first way of resolving this disagreement would be with an appeal to priesthood authority in which one side acquiesces to the presiding authority of the other.  The second way would be with an appeal to inter-personal reasoning in which, very roughly speaking, the less persuasive side acquiesces to the more persuasive side. ("Priesthood Authority vs Inter-Personal Reasoning", Jeff G, 9 Jun 2014)

A Simple Set of Rules

The opening scene of  Cosmos: A SpaceTime Odyssey (2014) starts with this beginning of this quote.

The Cosmos is all that is or was or ever will be. Our feeblest contemplations of the Cosmos stir us -- there is a tingling in the spine, a catch in the voice, a faint sensation, as if a distant memory, of falling from a height. We know we are approaching the greatest of mysteries. (Carl Sagan, "Cosmos (1980)")

Neil deGrasse Tyson tells us that Carl Sagan started us on a great adventure.

This adventure is made possible by generations of searchers strictly adhering to a simple set of rules 

- Test ideas by experimentation and observation
- Build on those ideas that pass the test
- Reject the ones that fail
- Follow the evidence wherever is leads.
- Question everything 

Accept these terms and the cosmos is yours.

These rules fit perfectly well into the rules of spiritual exploration too. As I experimented on Alma's word I observed the Good Word of God swelling in me.

I have come to see that not all of my childhood suppositions seem to actually be real and I am OK with that.

I love the allegory of the olive tree in Jacob 5. The tree is dunged and pruned to remove the most bitter branches, according to the strength of the roots.

Line upon line we learn, live and become the Good we receive from God.

And science has been a gift of God to us. And is part of the great whole of good and truth.

---
You can watch it on Fox Now.
Episode List

Two Methods of Gaining Knowledge

I am grateful to know that there are two methods of gaining knowledge — the scientific method and the spiritual method, which begins with faith in God and relies on scriptures, inspired teaching and personal revelation. There is no ultimate conflict between knowledge gained by these different methods because God, our omnipotent Eternal Father, knows all truth and beckons us to learn by them both. ("Witnesses of God", BYU-Idaho Devotional, Elder Dallin H. Oaks, Feb 25, 2014)

-

A Dancing Tree

A friend of mine posted this on Facebook:
"In a heated debate.... no one will listen to reason and no one will change their opinion. When people are angry, they will not change there state of mind. .... and it is useless to have a debate.... because no one will listen. ._. Just live life the way you do, but also learn to respect others opinions/ reason."

It is really amazing when you disagree strongly with a friend and yet can still remain calm and respectful with each other.

A couple of weeks ago, my work colleagues gathered from their remote locations to look forward to possibilities for the coming year.  We went to eat pizza as a group. Religion came up in our discussion. There were not many positive expressions of religion or Mormonism.  I noticed one friend sitting with his arms folded like he was uncomfortable with the discussion.  I hadn't said much or anything at all.  I ended up talking with a good friend like we always do. He expressed why he had become atheist. I expressed the good I had found in my LDS faith. After a while the uncomfortable friend opened up and was amazed that we could have a discussion without shouting or getting mean.

It really is amazing when people can try to see things through the eyes of others. For me, it has been eye opening and sometimes a cathartic experience to see the world through new eyes. My father in law one said that he wanted to see things as they really are. That is one of my goals in my interactions with my friends of differing views. I have come to respect differing views. That they give new insights to reality and relationships and our common goal of living healthy and happy lives.

My experience at dinner with my workmates reminded me of a lecture between an evangelical Christian and a Mormon. They got further by trying to speak to each other rather than past each other. We can have strong convictions and still be civil with each other. We can respect others with strongly differing views if we can establish that each of us are acting in good faith.

Lucy Mack Smith, the mother of Joseph Smith Jr had a dream about 1803 that contrasted how her husband and his brother Jesse reacted to new ideas. They were both represented as magnificent trees.  One responded with life to the wind and breeze around him.  The other was stiff and did not move.

I saw one of them was surrounded with a bright belt that shone like burnished gold, but far more brilliantly. Presently, a gentle breeze passed by, and the tree encircled with this golden zone bent gracefully before the wind and waved its beautiful branches in the light air. As the wind increased, this tree assumed the most lively and animated appearance and seemed to express in its motions the utmost joy and happiness. If it had been an intelligent creature, it could not have conveyed by the power of language the idea of joy and gratitude so perfectly as it did; and even the stream that rolled beneath it shared, apparently, every sensation felt by the tree, for, as the branches danced over the stream, it would swell gently, then recede again with a motion as soft as the breathing of an infant, but as lively as the dancing of a sunbeam. (The Eyewitness History of the Church, W. Jeffrey Marsh,  p 268)  

Lucy's husband was the flexible one. He was willing to consider new ideas. He was filled with life and intelligence. I want to be like that. Willing to consider any good and true principle and practice.

I am grateful for the goodness and truth that I have found in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I hold many of its teachings dear to my heart. I also appreciate the goodness and truth I have found elsewhere. Much of this has come from being willing to hear my friends of differing views. To try to understand their experiences. And to seek out that which will lead to great health and contentment in my life and my loved ones.

Find a truth in heaven, earth or hell

I want to say to my friends that we believe in all good. If you can find a truth in heaven, earth or hell, it belongs to our doctrine. We believe it; it is ours; we claim it (DBY, 2).

http://oneclimbs.com/2010/10/10/brigham-young-on-truth/

Truth Will Prevail

I have a friend Randy I have known in my LDS ward for several years.  I have been serving in the primary for about a year and a half.  I did not notice or did not take the time to find out when I did first notice to see why he and his family had stopped coming to church.  This week I saw a post on facebook about how he is an atheist now.  Here is a link to an audio interview he had with mormonstories.com.  His story is in part one.

I have had some friendly email exchange with him in the last few days.  He (and I hope I) have been respectful of each other’s convictions.  I do not pretend to understand why he has made such a leap in his world view in the last few years.  I did not know he was undergoing such a change.  I hope to understand more fully what has prompted this change for him.  I want to share with you my own journey with some of the hard histories of the LDS Church.  And why I continue to believe in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

For Christmas 2009, I got Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling.  It is a biography of Joseph Smith by a historical scholar that is a faithful member of the church.  He does, however seem to try and give the history of Joseph Smith an even hand.  He tells the facts as best they are known.  He does admit that he does approach the history from a faithful LDS perspective.  I got so much out of the book.  It is worth anyone’s reading especially if they want to understand the roots of Mormonism.  There were several parts that gave me concern but none more than the description of Joseph’s practice of polygamy.  I am not sure why or what can explain what seems to be evident.

This and other concerns even before reading this book have caused me to rethink what I do believe and why.  I went back to my childhood.  The first thing I can remember knowing for sure is that my parents love me.  I respect them and trust what they taught me.  Another experience I had was in reading the Book of Mormon in my freshmen year in high school.  I came to understand the doctrine of Christ.  The experiences of Alma the Elder, the Younger.  The teachings of King Benjamin.  They all rang true.  I came to peace and forgiveness as I practiced the teachings I learned.  As a husband I have felt the bliss and blessing of forgiveness from my wife.  She has been an incarnation of what I have read of how the Savior will and does forgive.  

I am not sure what to make of Joseph Smith.  I believe in all the doctrines we continue to teach from him.  That God the Father is a perfect, physical man.  That Jesus Christ is separate from Him and his literal, physical Son (JS-Hist).  That the Holy Ghost is also separate and that He has the power to lead to all truth.  I believe in the plan of salvation and the universal access all men have at gaining it (D&C 76).  I believe that the fall of Adam was a necessary part of that plan and that moral agency is a key to the plan (2 Ne 2).  I believe that only Christ can save us from our sins before, while and after we make our best effort to follow him (“After All We Can Do”).  I believe that God will change me as I partner with Him.  From a fallen, broken man to receive all that He has (D&C 84:33-41).

There are many, more doctrines than is easy to list here that ring true to me.  I have felt it emotionally, spiritually, and as a clarity in my mind that seems extraordinary.  As I have lived the teachings of the church, I am happy.  When I have failed, I have been miserable.  I am grateful for the practical structure of the church that helps me become who I am to become.  To cast off the base and selfish nature of my self.  To glory in the lifting of others that somehow lifts me.

How do I reconcile Joseph and the other hard histories of my church?  If I were alive in Joseph’s time and I knew what I know now, I would ask him to help me understand.  But I am in my own time.  I know that history may not paint the picture fully.  If what I have read is true, there are still some things I do not understand.  I am not being asked today to practice what is reported Joseph did.  I do know that there are many teachings from Joseph that clarify what God is like and what he wants us to become.

What I see in my church today is nothing short of miraculous.  I see women and men serving voluntarily in all sorts of capacity.  I see people being called to positions of authority that would never choose it.  And are increased because of it and those that they serve.  I see in the centuries that the church has been here, a clearing away of the branches which bring forth bitter fruit (Jacob 5:64-65).  I see the Restoration continuing until the church and its people are wholly acceptable to the Lord.

I choose to be charitable to the history of my church when I look with 21st century eyes on those in the 19th and 20th century and even now.  I believe God sends angels to prophets to declare the good news.  Those prophets in all their weakness ask us to believe their words.  We have the Holy Ghost and the fruits of the Restoration to verify their words.  The following passage rarely fails to stir my heart.

Brethren, shall we not go on in so great a cause? Go forward and not backward. Courage, brethren; and on, on to the victory! Let your hearts rejoice, and be exceedingly glad. Let the earth break forth into singing. Let the dead speak forth anthems of eternal praise to the King Immanuel, who hath ordained, before the world was, that which would enable us to redeem them out of their prison; for the prisoners shall go free. (D&C 128:22)

What do I make of Randy and the other good atheists that I know?  What do I make of the countless others with different faith or of no faith?  Those that are often better examples of a Christ-like life than my own or the members of the church I have known?

I believe truth will prevail.  Randy quoted J. Reuben Clark in one of his emails, "If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed."  Truth will prevail in more than in the factual “what is real” questions.  It will prevail in the hearts of honest women and men.  Those who wish to live by truth will continue to receive truth upon truth.  Whether that path leads them into and eventually out of atheism.  Whether that leads me out of my currently held and even most cherished beliefs.  If I am courageous enough and really want it, the truth will prevail in me.

There is a calculus that occurs in all our lives whether we want it to or not. We eventually get what we want. The trick is to choose that which will bring lasting happiness instead of only immediate pleasure.  As any person truly seeks to find and follow truth, truth is inevitable to come and that truth will make us into what only God can imagine.