"For Those Who Feel Overwhelmed at Church"

https://youtu.be/NnqvAHyRtv0

"BYU professor, and author of the new book "The Atoning One," shares this touching story of a woman who admitted to being overwhelmed by Church and how he responded as her ecclesiastical leader." From a FB Post of LDS Living.

Not Getting What You Deserve

TOFW presenter Robert Millet shares his thoughts on grace, mercy, and their combined enabling power.

After All We Can Do

We had a discussion in Sunday School about 2 Nephi 25:23 "For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do."

This morning, I was listening to "All About You" and album of Kenneth Cope.  It has so many messages that bring my mind to the principle that Nephi was teaching.  I wrote about the mathematics of the infinite and eternal a while back. The balance of faith and works is one of the doctrines of the gospel of Jesus Christ that continues to amaze me.

I also like what Robert Millet says about this passage

Too often we are prone to view grace as that increment of goodness, that final gift of God that will make up the difference and thereby boost us into the celestial kingdom, "after all we can do" (2 Nephi 25:23). To be sure, we will need a full measure of divine assistance to become celestial material. But the grace of God, through Jesus Christ our Lord, is available to us every hour of every day of our lives.

The grace of Father in Heaven and Jesus Christ enables me to keep moving, keep working. I am free from being overwhelmed by the perfect example I am striving to follow. It is miraculous in that I am forgiven of my sins. I do not have to be burdened by the effects of my sin and the sin of others. I am free to progress, to grow, to ultimately become like my Father is. 1

What Mormons Believe About Jesus Christ

I just came across an article that describes in detail what Mormons believe about Jesus Christ.  To me it is a comprehensive and accurate essay of my beliefs of Christ, though a little academic.

It is "excerpts ...taken from an address to the Harvard Divinity School in March 2001 by Robert L. Millet, former dean of religious education at Brigham Young University"

The money quote from the article,

Given the challenges we face in our society — fatherless homes, child and spouse abuse, divorce, poverty, spreading crime and delinquency — it seems so foolish for men and women who believe in God, whose hearts and lives have been surrendered to that God, to allow doctrinal differences to prevent them from working together.

On how we differ from traditional Christianity about Jesus Christ.

In an effort to satisfy the accusations of Jews who denounced the notion of three Gods (Father, Son and Holy Ghost) as polytheistic, and at the same time incorporate ancient but appealing Greek philosophical concepts of an all-powerful moving force in the universe, the Christian church began to redefine the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. One classic work describes the intersection of Christian theology and Greek philosophy: “It is impossible for any one, whether he be a student of history or no, to fail to notice a difference of both form and content between the sermons on the Mount and the Nicene Creed. … The one belongs to a world of Syrian peasants, the other to a world of Greek philosophers. … The religion which our Lord preached ... took the Jewish conception of a Father in heaven, and gave it a new meaning.” In short, “Greek Christianity of the fourth century was rooted in Hellenism. The Greek minds which had been ripening for Christianity had absorbed new ideas and new motives.”[i] 

What is the result? Such Platonic concepts as the immutability, impassibility and timelessness of God made their way into Christian theology. As one group of Evangelical scholars has stated: “Many Christians experience an inconsistency between their beliefs about the nature of God and their religious practice. For example, people who believe that God cannot change his mind sometimes pray in ways that would require God to do exactly that. And Christians who make use of the free will defense for the problem of evil sometimes ask God to get them a job or a spouse, or keep them from being harmed, implying that God should override the free will of others in order to achieve these ends. ... 

“These inharmonious elements are the result of the coupling of biblical ideas about God with notions of the divine nature drawn from Greek thought. The inevitable encounter between biblical and classical thought in the early church generated many significant insights and helped Christianity evangelize pagan thought and culture. Along with the good, however, came a certain theological virus that infected the Christian doctrine of God, making it ill and creating the sorts of problems mentioned above. The virus so permeates Christina theology that some have come to take the illness for granted, attributing it to divine mystery, while others remain unaware of the infection altogether.” [Clark Pinnock, Richard Rice, John Sanders, William Hasker and David Basinger, The Openness of God: A Biblical Challenge to the Traditional Understanding of God (Downer Grove, Illinois: Intervarsity Press, 1994), 9–10.]

A quote given from Joseph Smith in the article.

Why should it be thought a thing incredible that the Lord should be pleased to speak again in these last days for their salvation? Perhaps you may be surprised at this assertion that I should say ‘for the salvation of his creatures in these last days’ since we have already in our possession a vast volume of his word [the Bible] which he has previously given. But you will admit that the word spoken to Noah was not sufficient or Abraham. … Isaac, the promised seed, was not required to rest his hope upon the promises made to his father Abraham, but was privileged with the assurance of [God’s] approbation in the sight of heaven by the direct voice of the Lord to him. … I have no doubt but that the holy prophets and apostles and saints in the ancient days were saved in the kingdom of God. … I may believe that Enoch walked with God. I may believe that Abraham communed with God and conversed with angels. … And have I not an equal privilege with the ancient saints? And will not the Lord hear my prayers, and listen to my cries as soon [as] he ever did to theirs, if I come to him in the manner they did? Or is he a respecter of persons? (Personal Writings of Joseph Smith, comp. Dean C. Jessee (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1984), 297–301; spelling and punctuation corrected.)

 I loved the story of the beginning of the dialog Robert Millet has had with evangelical Christians.

A number of years ago a colleague and I traveled with two Evangelical Christian friends to another part of the country to meet with a well-known theologian, author and pastor/teacher in that area. We had read several of his books and had enjoyed his preaching over the years. As a part of an outreach effort to better understand those of other faiths (and to assist them to understand us a little better), we have visited such institutions as Notre Dame, Catholic University, Baylor, Wheaton College and various religious colleges and seminaries. We met this particular pastor and then attended his church services on both Sunday morning and Sunday evening and in both meetings were impressed with the depth and inspiration of his preaching. 

The next day we met for lunch and had a wonderful two-hour doctrinal discussion. I explained that we had no set agenda, except that we had admired his writings and wanted to meet him. We added that we had several questions we wanted to pose in order to better understand Evangelical theology. I mentioned that as the dean of religious education (at that time), I oversaw the teaching of religion to some 30,000 young people at Brigham Young University and that I felt it would be wise for me to be able to articulate properly the beliefs of our brothers and sisters of other faiths. I hoped, as well, that they might make the effort to understand our beliefs so as to represent accurately what we teach. 

Early in our conversation the minister said something like: “Look, anyone knows there are big difference between us. But I don’t want to focus on those differences. Let’s talk about Christ.” We then discussed the person of Jesus, justification by faith, baptism, sanctification, salvation, heaven, hell, agency and predestination, premortal existence and a number of other fascinating topics. We compared and contrasted, we asked questions and we answered questions. In thinking back on what proved to be one of the most stimulating and worthwhile learning experiences of our lives, the one thing that characterized our discussion, and the one thing that made the biggest difference, was the mood that existed there — a mood of openness, candor and a general lack of defensiveness. We knew what we believed, and we were all committed to our own religious tradition. But we were eager to learn where the other person was coming from.

Jesus is the "prototype of all saved beings, the standard of salvation" see Lectures on Faith, 7:9

How should we react to those who do not consider us Christian?

Knowing what I know, feeling what I feel and having experienced what I have in regard to the person and power of the Savior, it is difficult for me to be patient and loving toward those who denounce me as a non-Christian. But I am constrained to do so in the spirit of Him who also was misunderstood and misrepresented. While it would be a wonderful thing to have others acknowledge our Christianity, we do not court favor nor will we compromise our distinctiveness.

Convicted and Civil

Last night I attended "A Conversation Between a Mormon & an Evangelical" a public lecture with Dr. Robert L. Millet and Rev. Gregory C. V. Johnson at the Tempe Institute of Religion at ASU.

I cannot express how much I enjoyed it. They spoke of "convicted civility" a phrase they got from Richard J. Mouw. It means that I can retain the convictions of my beliefs and allow a close friend of mine to keep his and yet we can have a rich and rewarding relationship. Where the goal is not conversion but understanding. Not score keeping but increased curiosity. It reminds me of a phrase from Jeffrey R. Holland's recent talk “My Words . . . Never Cease” where he stated the LDS claim that we are Christians "respectfully but resolutely". I would have no problem with an evangelical sharing his beliefs with me. Done respectfully yet passionately.

How is this possible? I saw in this 2 hour presentation good-natured joking and teasing between the two of them. They said that their relationship was based on many lunches. Bro Millet said you can say that our relationship is founded on a lot of salad. Rev Johnson then said "and a little bit of pasta in the case of Bob".

By their own description, this was not a Rodney King "Can't we just all get along" kind of relationship. They asked each other hard questions. Bro Millet related a story of another time they shared this presentation. A person asked Bro Millet, "Don't Mormons believe in a different Jesus than we do?" Bro Millet had just finished writing a book on this theme. He was so full of ideas yet his tongue didn't move. In the pause his friend Rev. Johnson said, "Can I take this?" Bro Millet happily conceded. "I wonder if you might change how you ask that question. What if you asked instead 'What do you believe about Jesus?'" He went on to say how the first question is a conversation stopper. Then second a conversation starter.

When they passed out 4x5 cards I was so excited. I thought, "what can I ask these guys?" I wrote. "Rev. Johnson, would you introduce me to someone (an evangelical) in the northwest Phoenix Valley who would like to have lunch with me?" I grew up in the Phoenix area. In high school I had some very good evangelical friends. I was very saddened when I felt my relationship with them had to stop because we could not bridge the gap in our theology. They were very good people. I would expect they still are.

Bro Millet shared a story at the end where he read Just As I Am, Billy Graham's autobiography. At the end he was emotionally moved. He expressed to his wife his conviction that God had used Rev Graham to move His work forward on earth. He quoted Elder Orson F. Whitney of the quorum of the twelve apostles who spoke in the April 1928 General Conference, "God is using more than one people for the accomplishment of His great and marvelous work. The Latter-day Saints cannot do it all. It is too vast, too arduous for any one people. … They are our partners in a certain sense."

This reminded me of my good evangelical friends in high school. There is no doubt for me that God moved in their lives. They were completely committed to moral chastity among many in the school who would have persuaded them otherwise. They were kind. They looked for ways to uplift others. Their works are the fruit. They demonstrated to me the Grace of God they had received.

Here is a YouTube video, "Standing Together: Is Anybody Listening?" with both Reverend Johnson and Brother Millet. I recommend it. Here is a summary about what is different about the "Faith Dialogue" Greg Johnson wants to foster. Here is an article written by Robert L. Millet. He tells a story that I think is helpful.

On this particular night, the first question asked by someone in the audience was on DNA and the Book of Mormon. I made a brief comment and indicated that a more detailed (and informed) response would be forthcoming in a journal article from a BYU biologist. There were many hands in the air at this point. I called on a woman close to the front of the church. Her question was, "How do you deal with the Adam-God doctrine?"

I responded, "Thank you for that question. It gives me an opportunity to explain a principle early in our exchange that will lay the foundation for other things to be said." I took a few moments to address the questions, "What is our doctrine? What do we teach today?" I indicated that if some teaching or idea was not in the standard works, not among official declarations or proclamations, was not taught currently by living apostles or prophets in general conference or other official gatherings, or was not in the general handbooks or official curriculum of the Church, it is probably not a part of the doctrine or teachings of the Church.

I was surprised when my pastor friend then said to the group: "Are you listening to Bob? Do you hear what he is saying? This is important! It's time for us to stop criticizing Latter-day Saints on matters they don't even teach today." At this point in the meeting, two things happened: first, the number of hands went down, and second, the tone of the meeting changed quite dramatically. The questions were not baiting or challenging ones but rather were efforts to clarify. For example, the last question asked was by a middle-aged man: "I for one would like to thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for what you have done here tonight. This thrills my soul. I think this is what Jesus would do. I have lived in Utah for many years, and I have many LDS friends. We get along okay; we don't fight and quarrel over religious matters. But we really don't talk with one another about the things that matter most to us—that is, our faith. I don't plan to become a Latter-day Saint, and I'm certain my Mormon friends don't plan to become Evangelical, but I would like to find more effective ways to talk heart to heart. Could you two make a few suggestions on how we can deepen and sweeten our relationships with our LDS neighbors?"

At that point, I sensed that we had somehow gotten through to some of the audience. Richard Mouw, one of my Evangelical friends,has suggested the need for "convicted civility," the challenge to be true to our own faith and not compromise one whit of our doctrine and way of life, and at the same time strive to better understand and respect our neighbors who are of another religious persuasion.

I remember a neighbor of mine. One who just a few weeks ago politely said they are not interested in learning more about the LDS church. I think I will print out a copy of this and give it to him. What a radical idea! Friends who only try to understand, to be neighborly. Who leave the converting to God.

Now a final note to the friend of Greg Johnson. The one who he said he would introduce me to. I am looking forward to lunch :)

Update Sep 2014

Here is an example of one of their conversations from June 13th, 2012. "Talking Past Each Other"